 | Home > Technical > Td5 - No indicators or hazard lights |
 
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| mk1collector Member Since: 17 Sep 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 6769   
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Clean out the trailer socket thoroughly
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19th Mar 2014 10:16pm |
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| tpy Member Since: 27 Jan 2014 Location: paris Posts: 17 
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Hello to all again, I'm back with some news from my recalcitrant indicators on my 2005 TD5 def. Poor thing has been sitting stupid on a parisian parking lot for about a month now.
Since my last post, I've tried the following, with very little success... I changed the flasher unit. RH indicators are working fine but still no sign of recovery on the LH side. So here is the status: Everything seems to be working fine on the right hand side. All three lights (front, side repeater, rear) flash normally if I switch my RH indicators on. The tell tale light for the RH indicators also flashes on the dash, together with the trailer symbol light. The 10A fuse in the indicator circuit blows as soon as I switch the LH indicator on, whether the light bulbs are disconnected or not. I see no light flashing on the dash, no green arrow no trailer symbol. I also burn the 15A fuse in the Hazard warning light loop whenever I press on the hazzard switch button, even if the 10A fuse is already dead and the ignition is off. And here is what I've tried so far I built a re-armable 10A fuse from a standard circuit breaker, so that at least I would stop burning fuses by the hundreds, but even that does not work so well: It does not trip if I switch my LH indicators on, I can hear the flasher ticking but none of the LH bulbs lits up and the flasher starts heating up so bad it would probably melt in a minute. I tried to disconnect the trailer socket, but no luck, impossible to put enough torque on the bolts with a flat screwdriver, with or without WD40. I'd need to cut the bolts and put new ones. So I douzed the socket on site with a contact cleaner spray. Did not do much, I am still blowing the 10A fuse as soon as I switch my LH indicators on or press the Hazard switch button on. Since i had this contact cleaner in hand, I also took the hazzard warning button off, and sprayed it liberally, dried it and put it back on. That did not change a thing. I've looked everywhere I could for a short to earth , but could not spot any naked wire. I've checked behind the rear, side repeater and front bulbs, behind the dash, behind the radio, next to the trailer socket, and anywhere where I could find the wire harness before it disappears inside the chassis. I've looked for a connector between the rear part of the wire harness and the front, hopping I could disconnect the rear and narrow down the search for a short circuit. I found a bunch of connectors in the engine bay, next to the cooling liquid refil tank, but would not know which is who. Happy to post pictures if anyone care to look at them. Cheers, TPY |
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28th Mar 2014 10:32am |
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| mk1collector Member Since: 17 Sep 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 6769
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Replace the hazard switch
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28th Mar 2014 11:12am |
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| gprich Member Since: 14 Jun 2013 Location: East Devon Posts: 42  
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Hello TPY
I think I would concentrate on the tow socket you need to get it off and seperate all the wires and re test - they are well known for giving problems  |
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28th Mar 2014 11:22am |
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| mk1collector Member Since: 17 Sep 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 6769
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If you want to rule out the tow socket look under the the right rear arch. At the back there is a plastic cover/flap, lift this and you can see the tow socket plug that can be disconnected to make sure there isn't a short and reconnected easily after.
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28th Mar 2014 11:32am |
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| tpy Member Since: 27 Jan 2014 Location: paris Posts: 17
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Thank you for your input, this is much appreciated. I'll have a look at this trailer socket connector asap and I'll let you know.
Cheers, TPY |
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28th Mar 2014 12:11pm |
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| tpy Member Since: 27 Jan 2014 Location: paris Posts: 17
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I finally got to take this trailer socket out and had a look inside. It did not look that bad, no stray wire no mud, but I cleaned it with a contact cleaner just in case and.... it did the trick! Still can't believe it but my indicators and hazard lights are back! Not quite sure yet whether the root cause is cured for good but at least I'm road legal again. Until next time.... Thanks to all for the tips and feedback.
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3rd Apr 2014 3:31pm |
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| mk1collector Member Since: 17 Sep 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 6769
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3rd Apr 2014 3:46pm |
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| I.AM_a driver Member Since: 11 Jun 2009 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland Posts: 404  
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If it's a standard LR one, the trailer socket is connected to the main loom via a connector in the wheelarch on the drivers side (RHD spec). For yours the connector is probably passenger side, if you're disconnecting it I'd cover the bare end with something eg latex glove until you can source a replacement if this was indeed at fault. I replaced the trailer socket on mine but had to wait a week for part to arrive & find time in daylight to fit, so the glove taped over the bare end kept most of the water & muck out in the interim. Mark S
CONVOY for HEROES www.facebook.com/convoy4heroes www.lothian4x4response.org ------ Td5 90 Thread in 'My Defender' Forum |
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3rd Apr 2014 5:59pm |
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| tpy Member Since: 27 Jan 2014 Location: paris Posts: 17
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 Click image to enlarge So, it seems I am not entirely out of the electrical woods yet: After I cleaned my trailer socket, my indicators did function almost normally for a while (but for the fact that switching them on would systematically illuminate the trailer symbol on the instrument panel) but I am now back to square one. I took the Def for a very short detour on a muddy trail and as an immediate result, the 10A fuse blew and I lost my indicators again. I went straight to the trailer socket, checked the inside for muck of water, could not find anything spectacular but cleaned it as good as any trailer socket has ever been, though this time it did not help: The symptoms are exactly the same as before, the fuse goes out in smoke as soon as i switch the left hand side indicators on. I took the car to the cleaning station and used the high pressure jet to remove as much mud and dirt as I could, hoping it would help me see an eventual short somewhere where a stripped wire would touch the body. That did improve the matter a little, but not for long, I could not spot the reason for the short circuit and in the process of searching I burned my flasher unit again. Which brings me to the following question: I am using a home-made 10 A re-settable fuse, made from a standard element used for domestic electrical panel (see pic). That should protect my circuit against current intensity above 10 +/-2A, thus I am surprised my flasher unit died so easily. Does anyone know the specs for these units? Are they really supposed to see current below 10A or did I just buy one of very low quality. Are genuine LR units recommended? Or is it my home made fuse not playing its part properly? Thanks for the tips! TPY |
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23rd Apr 2014 5:47pm |
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| mk1collector Member Since: 17 Sep 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 6769
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Unplug the trailer socket underneath the rear 1/4 panel (if your left hand drive that will be passenger side) and clean the plug out (or just leave it unplugged if you don't need it) and see if your problem is solved when you replace the fuse.
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23rd Apr 2014 6:22pm |
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| mk1collector Member Since: 17 Sep 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 6769
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Sorry just read further back and realised I'd already told you this
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23rd Apr 2014 6:24pm |
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| Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971  
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what you seem to have there is an RCBO, that is a "Residual Current Circuit Breaker with Overload" and is designed to protect mains electrical outlets. The two features are
1) residual current detection: search online for more, but basically if it detects a mismatch between the phase and neutral currents (in this case greater than 30mA) it will trip. 2) overload protection, if the current goes above its threshold it will trip. Now, RCBOs and more generally MCBs (they do away with 1) above and just do 2). More of a direct fuse replacement) have various different "Classes" which determine how quickly they trip. For instance, a motor on startup draws a huge inrush current, and using a tightly rated MCB will cause a lot of nuisance trips, but for something like a lighting circuit you might want it to trip more quickly. The common classes are: Type B trips between 3 and 5 times nominal current Type C trips between 5 and 10 times nominal current Type D trips between 10 and 20 times nominal current. That's instantaneous trips. There are also thermal magnetic breaker that respond to longer term minor overloads. I'd be tempted to try a B6 in there, should only be £2 or so. If you're burning out relays then that does at least suggest that the fault is on the output side rather than the input side. |
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23rd Apr 2014 6:59pm |
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| tpy Member Since: 27 Jan 2014 Location: paris Posts: 17
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Thank you for your reply mk1collector. I checked for such a connector but could not find it. It seems that the trailer socket is connected via a cable that merges with the main wire harness beneath the rear wheel arch in a way that would require a bit of surgery If I were to disconnect those two. I will try it only if everything else fails! TPY |
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24th Apr 2014 12:49pm |
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